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  1. #1

    The First Impression of a New Player: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

    Hello, I am Saturn. This username belongs to me, but currently it is not the name of my main character. I will not be disclosing that name to avoid any unnecessary comments from anyone.

    I joined this server last month, as it was being advertised by one of my favorite artists. Thank you for showing me this wonderful game.
    However, as wonderful as it may be, it definitely has some problems.
    As a new player who has never played the official Twin Saga servers, nor any other game produced by Aeria Games, I think it is fair to say that I will not have any bias towards this game and it's community, as I have nothing to compare it to that would hold a fair comparison.

    Let me begin by making a claim: First impressions are very important for bringing in new players.
    To what degree this statement is true is debatable, but it is still a true statement.
    Of course, this is a private server. I don't expect any changes to actual gameplay, since the people who run this server are fairly limited.
    But I'm not here to talk about the gameplay aspects. I'm here to talk about things that can be changed by both the inhabitants of the server, and the people who run in.

    In this brief outline, I will be discussing several things that have stood out to me in my month of playing this server. Whether or not you believe these problems are worth noting is your choice. I do not expect and will not tolerate any comments that may spark chaos in this thread. This does NOT include criticism. Criticism is what fuels games and communities to improve. Pointing out faults is what leads to them being fixed. But please do keep in mind that I am a NEW PLAYER. I will not know that "this is only something that has been happening recently" or that "that was just a one time thing" or anything along those lines. Stating such things to me are pointless. Alright, let's get into the good, the bad, and the ugly.

    (I had to make three posts because I was 4k words over the limit haha...)
    Last edited by Saturn; 02-08-2017 at 07:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Here is an outline of the good things I have noticed about this server:
    - GM who want to invigorate the community.
    - Some helpful players who are willing to sacrifice their time for their peers if needed.
    - Helpful starter packs to help new players catch up with old players

    Pretty self explanatory. I don't really need to get into how wonderful these things are, for I'm sure we all enjoy them.

    Here is an outline of the bad things I have noticed about this server:
    - Notice how I said GM, not GMs in the previous statement. The only GM who I have seen considerably active INGAME in the the past month is Samuel (Except for a single event where giant monsters were spawned, but this was during the NEW YEARS event). I am on nearly everyday with the exception of maybe yesterday and Sunday due to power outages (Yes, I'm either dedicated or a huge nerd). So, cheers to you GM Samuel. I'm glad that you're putting so much effort into helping this community grow. This post would not be complete without giving you credit for your hard work.
    - Information shouldn't have to come directly from the players every time someone needs to answer a new question. I'm aware there is a wiki, but since this is a private server, there are some things that will not be found on the wiki that everyone can read. Also, new players don't know what to look for. It's one thing to have basic knowledge and know to look up something specific you need help with on the wiki. It's another thing if you don't even know where to go or what to do once you have reached end game. Here's a short list of things I had to look for or still don't know about, even after looking for guides on other websites and asking other players:
    - How the hell does the furniture system work?
    - How do the Astral Puzzle tiers work?
    - What's the best type of end game gear? Does it depend on the class?
    - How do formulas work?
    - Where is the best place to farm for (insert currency here)?
    - How good does my gear have to be to survive (insert end game dungeon here)?
    - Is it worth wasting my gold to level my (insert craft/alchemy/gardening/cooking) skill?
    - What is a basic end of game goal that many players strive for?
    - Is there a basic set of acceptable prices in the economy? If so, what are they?
    - How do I get a bigger terracottage?
    - What are those Item Mall points that look like presents? How do I get them?
    - What are these daily events that require "sign ups"?

    (Please do not answer these questions in the comments. This isn't a Q&A thread. I will make separate threads about these issues if I continue to have troubles. Thank you.)

    I could go on for much longer.
    This is a big problem for this server. I've looked through a majority of forums, and I am disappointed to say that there are very few new player friendly informational posts. If I continue to see a lack of these types of posts, I will eventually take it upon myself to answer these questions in case any potential new players find themselves having the same problems that I have been having after I find the information myself. I am VERY pleased however to see some small guides, such as the Hidden Quests and basic Chinese Translations. Kudos to you fellow players for taking it upon yourselves to improve this community. I don't really know how any game expects to become popular when the most valuable players, the new players who help the community grow to a larger scale, have no idea what the hell they are supposed to be doing or how to achieve the goals they have set for themselves.

    A single neutral thing I noticed:
    - This particular in game occurrence is what sparked my personal want to create this post. This concerns an in game event that GM Samuel hosted on 2/7/17. It was a small event that basically had the players who wished to participate find senshi that were spawned around multiple maps, much like a treasure hunt. However, few people participated due to the fact that it was a "winner take all event". Of course, this sparked a few complaints. GM Samuel then brought up the point that he only wanted to host an event for the players to have fun and have a chance at winning something, and that he only had one item available since he could not duplicate items. This is fine. It is very nice that the GM, and the only GM I have seen incredibly active, wanted to host an event. This wasn't really a big deal. However, there is still an argument for both sides. To be honest, Samuel wasn't what bothered me in this occurrence. This thing/problem I am discussing has to do with the events and how they are run. So let us first ask ourselves: What makes a good event??
    -Whether or not the GM puts effort to give many events to the players may effect our general opinion of the server and how it's run, but it should not effect whether the event if good or hosted at a justifiable time. The main aspects of a good event depend on these questions: Was the event do-able? Was the amount of participation being asked upon the participants justifiable for the prizes or experience (experience as in fun) that was being offered? Is this event necessary or appropriate with the resources the staff has to run it? What were the initial player reactions to the event? When will the event be held? Is this time convenient for both the staff and the largest majority of players online at a given time?
    Let us go through these questions one by one, using this incident as an >EXAMPLE< (PLEASE NOTE: THE POINT OF THE EVENT BULLET IS NOT TO TALK ABOUT GM SAMUEL AND WHETHER OR NOT HE MADE MISTAKES. I APOLOGIZE IF IT SEEMS THAT WAY. THE POINT OF THIS BULLET IS TO DISCUSS WHAT MAKES A GOOD EVENT, WHEN THE GMS SHOULD HOST ONE, AND HOW TO AVOID NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM PLAYERS WHO DO NOT LIKE THE EVENTS SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY. EVENTS ARE A GIFT FROM THE GMS TO THE COMMUNITY IN GENERAL, BUT HOW GOOD THE EVENTS ARE AND HOW PROFESSIONALLY THEY ARE PRESENTED DEPEND ON THE GMS. THANK YOU. ):

    - This event was do-able, as the GM stated that the senshi would be hidden in low level areas only to maximized the number of people who could play. It did not require any specific gameplay elements, only patience, time, and the knowledge that the GM presented to the participants.
    - The amount of participation was a lot to ask for. However, whether or not it was worth it depended on how fun the event was or what prizes were to be given out. In this particular case, the amount of time and participation that was required to win the event (plus the fact that there was only a CHANCE that you would win) did not make the event worth a majority of player's time. Many people, including myself, passed from this particular event because of the winner take all aspect. HOWEVER, Samuel did justify why this happened, since he only had one item. This leads to the next question.
    - This event was not necessary, however most events aren't. Events are solely here for the purpose of making the players happy. However, the event was no where near being appropriate considering the resources that the person running the event had. An event is supposed to appeal to a large amount of players. Not only that, but it is supposed to make the players either feel like they have a chance, or make them feel like that as long as they try their hardest, it's okay. Of course, I'm not saying that everyone should be rewarded, but having only one person who is rewarded is discouraging. The event itself is not discouraging, since having events to begin with gives everyone a little hope and a little happiness. The chances of winning an event if it can only have one winner, yet the potential to have many players, is what causes potential participants to become discouraged from giving the event a try. Of course, this can all roll over if the event is fun, but that is something I cannot measure, since everyone has a different definition or idea of "fun".
    - The initial player reactions were indifferent. I can't say there were more good than bad, but I can't say the latter either. Instead of pointing out whether the player reactions were good or bad, I would just like to make a simple point: Even if a GM is doing an event for the good of the players, if the players do not like the event, it is defeating the overall purpose of the event, which is to make the players happy.
    - The time is was being held was around 6:00 - 6:15 AM server time.
    - The time was convenient for the GM since they announced it, but it was by no means convenient for the players. It was random and not advertised, so many players who might have potentially been interested in the event did not get the chance. This is very sad, as the people who are lucky enough to be on when the GM announces it are the only ones who get to participate. I suggest reducing the amount of random events and instead advertise through both forums and ingame world chat at least a day in advance.

    Now that we're done with this mess... Let's move on to...

  3. #3
    Let's look at the ugly things I have noticed:
    Only one thing. Very small...notreally......

    Toxic players.
    There are SO many toxic, immature, unwelcoming players in this server. Unfortunately, it is not something that anyone except the toxic players themselves can change, unless they happen to break a rule. Then we can smack them with the ban hammer ' ^ '.

    FOR EXAMPLE
    In the previous occurrence with the event, in Samuel's defense, many players made it seem like they didn't want him there. And that's fine and dandy, players can have their opinions, they can like and dislike whomever they want. But, communities should at least show some respect to both the GMs and the other players. I've seen people who will practically bully other people for actually wanting to participate in an event. I've seen GMs get mouthed off in world chat because their events don't appeal to them. I've seen people tell others to basically sit down and shut up for reasons that do not seem justifiable to do that to another person, if you can even argue that it's ever okay. That's fine if they don't like it, but these people need an attitude adjustment. It's one thing to think it, it's another think to let it be known, and then stress it to a point where it brings harm to another player. You want a bigger community? That's too bad, because these toxic players are the ones who are chasing people away. You want good events? Well these players are making the GMs not want to host them anymore. You want a free, open chat where people can just be themselves? Nope, because that means the toxic players are just as equally allowed to be themselves.

    Communities are fragile chains. Players are the small links that are easy to break, but don't cause much damage unless too many break at one time. GMs are the big links. When one of them break, the entire server will be affected. To minimize damage, the community needs to stay together, stay positive, and if there's a problem, rather than getting angry that it isn't being fixed and becoming toxic, go make it known to whoever can fix it in a peaceful way. GMs are here to maximize game potential for everyone who plays a server, after all. If they don't, they're not doing their job, and that's their fault. But if you don't let them know what's going on, then it's your fault.

    Feel free to express any criticism, but please, at least keep the forums somewhat clean. I would hate to see the forums become toxic too.
    And hey, maybe things aren't really as bad as I make them seem.
    Hell, maybe they're worse.
    But the point of this post is to make it known that this is an unbiased and small collection of problems that have affected my first impression on this server. I'm a new player. If I can have this first impression, so can any other new player depending on their experiences. Whether or not you want to hate me for my opinions or take them in as valuable information to improve the server depends on you.

    I wish for this post to be an open place where people can discuss general community related problems without having to get it locked, if you could please.
    Let's all be civilized.
    Thank you for your time.

  4. #4
    Active User sserens's Avatar
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    tl; dr: There should be a New Player Guide like for AK.to; the other GMs should be more visible to the community; GM events should be more balanced and toxic players need to be put in their place.

  5. #5
    New Users Fluff's Avatar
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    Hmm some points I do agree and some I don't.

    I don't agree about the GM thing. I've seen way more GM's than just Sam. In fact I see more Claire than Samuel, others not as much but I still see them at least once or twice a week. It really depends on your timezone.

    I agree on people should make more guides to help new people get into the game (I'd definitely do it if I had more time beside my art) but again.. There's not many guides yet we still learned these things by ourselves. Not everything should be silver spoon fed or else the game and learning progress has no meaning. And if u need help u could have asked me...? ;o I've helped a lot of ppl who also joined after the journal I made ^^' Can always note or comment too if u cant catch me in game.

    Toxic? Nah imo this game is as close as ''carebear community'' u can get in an MMO. There will be always trolls on the internet but TS ''toxicity'' is nothing compared to bigger games. If you don't like someone, feel free to block them. I have all trolls/annoying kids blocked I can't personally stand and I'm sure GM's are prepared to handle such people so don't worry about them too much!

    Altho, I'm glad that the ppl who I talked so far and were new, been enjoying the game much more without bigger issues than maybe not being able to finish Nerokas boss... And yes, ofc u can have ur own opinion on things, but don't think everyone has same experience, goals or feel the same way than you.

    Thanks for reading~! I hope u will have better time soon.

    -Valy/Baby

  6. #6
    Active User narasya's Avatar
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    Like Fluff, I agree and don't agree with some things. But what really stuck with me is the "toxic players" point. And I have to strongly agree!

    I won't say names.

    For example:
    - Someone asked for help with Nerokas (something new players regularly ask) and a player said (not the exact same words): "everytime someone asks that I would like to smack them". We have to be nice to newbies, even if the question got asked many times before.
    - a strong player is making fun of other non-geared players
    - especially towards a GM: harsh words and insults (even when they're meant as a "joke" - some go way too far)
    - players wishing other players dead or tell them to kill themselves (it's very common and I don't get why)
    Last edited by narasya; 02-08-2017 at 12:46 PM.

    Twin Saga
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    sorcerer / shuriken

  7. #7
    Administrator Aura's Avatar
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    I really like your thread and I sincerely appreciate the effort you put in it. It seems like you give quite a thought on this matter.
    Despite the fact I agree with many of your opinions, I would like we make a small parenthesis about the GMs.

    GMs aren't always on stage; which doesn't mean they are being helpful to the community on the backstage. They have a personal life, wprk, they also play, and they have different time schedules (obviously they cannot be online 24/7). Our GMs do a LOT of things. They're always bringing new ideas to implement to the game. They report bugs and inappropiate behavior. They help running the Server's social medias, they do not only moderate the game but the forums, they help testing new content, just to name some of their tasks. They are really committed to their positions and I couldn't run this server without them.

    Now, you obviously won't see all of them online because not all of them are in the same time zone, quite the opposite. And is intentional, since our players doesn't come from one specific place but from all around the world. Not all events should be previously announced and advertised for days. The server has a lot of different type of events. When the prize is important enough, is always previously announced in forums, and facebook/twitter. But, when a GM wants to take players off their daily routines with a suggested activity/event with a small prize, is what we may call a spontaneous event. Knowing you may get an event on a random day, completely out of the blue, is also what it keeps a community active, and GMs have permissions to run this sort of small events to entertain the community from time to time.

  8. #8
    Active User ReistSoul's Avatar
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    Thou it just a suggestion but about the GM would it bad to have at least 1 or 2 that have same time as Asia or other time to match up. Because mostly i saw the mini event that GM made mostly around PM on server time while at Asia its already night or some of it midnight. Wont it make like less fun for Asia side because their only get few bits of the fun and have to stay up late night just to wait the mini event that been made. But this is just a suggestion.

    others i like the new player. Mostly their really kind and gentle afterall we just need to properly guide them thats all
    LET THE LOLI EMBRACE FLOW WITHIN YOU!! AND CAT!!



  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluff View Post
    Hmm some points I do agree and some I don't.

    I don't agree about the GM thing. I've seen way more GM's than just Sam. In fact I see more Claire than Samuel, others not as much but I still see them at least once or twice a week. It really depends on your timezone.

    I agree on people should make more guides to help new people get into the game (I'd definitely do it if I had more time beside my art) but again.. There's not many guides yet we still learned these things by ourselves. Not everything should be silver spoon fed or else the game and learning progress has no meaning. And if u need help u could have asked me...? ;o I've helped a lot of ppl who also joined after the journal I made ^^' Can always note or comment too if u cant catch me in game.

    Toxic? Nah imo this game is as close as ''carebear community'' u can get in an MMO. There will be always trolls on the internet but TS ''toxicity'' is nothing compared to bigger games. If you don't like someone, feel free to block them. I have all trolls/annoying kids blocked I can't personally stand and I'm sure GM's are prepared to handle such people so don't worry about them too much!

    Altho, I'm glad that the ppl who I talked so far and were new, been enjoying the game much more without bigger issues than maybe not being able to finish Nerokas boss... And yes, ofc u can have ur own opinion on things, but don't think everyone has same experience, goals or feel the same way than you.

    Thanks for reading~! I hope u will have better time soon.

    -Valy/Baby
    Thank you for your reply. Please allow me to respond with my opinions on your text~

    Since you maid three main points I will break this down into three main replies so it's easier to read. (I usually get lost in my own text so this is just easier for me haha).

    - Concerning the moderators, I do have to agree that I don't believe that I put enough thought into timezones. I will go into this in more detail when I reply to Aura's text since they brought up a similar point. My apologies for not thinking that through well enough.

    - I agree, being spoon fed is never good. Players who always learn to rely on someone else's information will never develop a sense of self reliance. However, this does not just apply to an informational forum post. This can be applied to asking other players for help as well. In my perspective, it always seems that new players are hard for old players to deal with because of how many questions they have. Though it is good for a new player to become familiar with the community, there are sometimes simply too many questions to be answered. This is where guides come in. It is bad, of course, if players are taught how to play, since everyone should develop their own style, and learn what works best for them in terms of stats and skills. Simple things, such as dungeons and how to craft, however, are basic systems in the game that most players need to know to succeed, and do not simply depend on the preferences of a character.
    So yes, we should avoid giving the players too much information that could effect how they wish to play, but we should at least provide enough information so that they know how to become successful.

    - I think it's fair to say that this one depends on personal experiences and how you perceive events. Some people see the good more than they see the bad. Sometimes, it's vice versa. Sometimes people ignore the community altogether because they simply don't care. That's fine. People are able to live and see things in any way they want, but that doesn't mean that everyone is okay with living the same way. Some people, such as myself, see that there is a problem. Others, such as you, don't think it's that bad. And yes, because our community is small, it's not a large scale problem. But it's because our community is small that it could potentially become a bigger problem. Here is how I think of this: 1) Toxic players scare off new people. If new people, such as myself, notice this as a big problem, they could become discouraged and not want to play the game anymore. 2) If our community has trouble with a few toxic people, and then we grow, how are we going to deal with the new toxic people that join later in the server's lifetime? Whether or not these become big issues just depend on timing I guess. I might have made it seem worse than it actually is, but there's always room for improvement no matter how small an issue is.

    - I'd like to make one final point: I apologize if I made it seem like everyone has the same experiences and goals as I do. I never meant to make it seem like my opinions matter anymore than someone else's. My main point was that new players are essential in any game that wishes to have a community that grows. If I, as a new player, have some experiences and notice some problems, then that means that any potential new player could have these experiences and notice these as well, depending on how long they play. In my opinion, I don't think my first impression is relatively good or relatively bad. I feel like it is neutral. It is because of the fact that people have different experiences that this is scary. Some people may look on the bright side of things more often and come to love the community. Others may think it's a small underdeveloped community that is not worth dealing with the toxic players. There is a good and a bad side to everything. I'm not saying that it's more likely that the bad side will shine through, but most people will see the bad things before they consider what's good about a server, which is what the problem is. We want players to stay and help our community grow. If this is a goal that could potentially be reached, then I think putting the effort towards making it happen is something worth doing.

    Thank you for your time.
    (also i love your signature it is adorable)


    Quote Originally Posted by narasya View Post
    Like Fluff, I agree and don't agree with some things. But what really stuck with me is the "toxic players" point. And I have to strongly agree!

    I won't say names.

    For example:
    - Someone asked for help with Nerokas (something new players regularly ask) and a player said (not the exact same words): "everytime someone asks that I would like to smack them". We have to be nice to newbies, even if the question got asked many times before.
    - a strong player is making fun of other non-geared players
    - especially towards a GM: harsh words and insults (even when they're meant as a "joke" - some go way too far)
    - players wishing other players dead or tell them to kill themselves (it's very common and I don't get why)
    These are exactly what I have been seeing lately. Of course, I cannot deny that there are many helpful, wonderful players who seem to jump to help anyone in need, there are equally just as many players who do this. I don't talk a lot in world chat, but I read absolutely everything. I'm an observer, it's just something I do. I hate to compare this server to other games I have played, but I feel like this is necessary in order to make my point.

    Something that bothers me a lot is that this server has no rules against constant harassment. Every game I have ever played has had a rule concerning harassment. I do not believe I have seen a bad case of it yet, as our community is small, but I feel like that if this server ever gains popularity it will become a problem. Maybe it's an unspoken rule? I don't know. It was not stated in the rules section. However, I feel like I can sympathize with why it may not be in there. With my past experiences, I can say I have a pretty good understanding of how the harassment rule can be abused. Many players could be biased towards a person because of how fortunate they are, and target them for that reason. Maybe someone is just having a bad day and they take something personally that they normally wouldn't care about. Sometimes, one player's definition of harassment could possibly be different from the server's definition. To make a rule about harassment requires a very specific definition to be coupled with it so that players could not abuse it while also allowing players who are affected to benefit from the rule.

    Many of you may see harassment as a controversial subject when a rule is fabricated around that idea. However, I am not saying that it is absolutely necessary to preserve our happy community. In my opinion, this isn't that big of a deal since our community, once again, is very small. But if our community ever becomes large scale, we won't just be gaining new players. New players means new interactions between players, some of which are good, and others of which are bad. Though this problem does not need to be immediately addressed, it cannot be ignored forever, either. My apologies if I stressed the problem, I'm just really sick of games becoming bad because of the communities and want to put a stop to toxic players early.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aura View Post
    I really like your thread and I sincerely appreciate the effort you put in it. It seems like you give quite a thought on this matter.
    Despite the fact I agree with many of your opinions, I would like we make a small parenthesis about the GMs.

    GMs aren't always on stage; which doesn't mean they are being helpful to the community on the backstage. They have a personal life, wprk, they also play, and they have different time schedules (obviously they cannot be online 24/7). Our GMs do a LOT of things. They're always bringing new ideas to implement to the game. They report bugs and inappropiate behavior. They help running the Server's social medias, they do not only moderate the game but the forums, they help testing new content, just to name some of their tasks. They are really committed to their positions and I couldn't run this server without them.

    Now, you obviously won't see all of them online because not all of them are in the same time zone, quite the opposite. And is intentional, since our players doesn't come from one specific place but from all around the world. Not all events should be previously announced and advertised for days. The server has a lot of different type of events. When the prize is important enough, is always previously announced in forums, and facebook/twitter. But, when a GM wants to take players off their daily routines with a suggested activity/event with a small prize, is what we may call a spontaneous event. Knowing you may get an event on a random day, completely out of the blue, is also what it keeps a community active, and GMs have permissions to run this sort of small events to entertain the community from time to time.
    - As I stated in my reply to Fluff, I don't believe I took time zones into consideration as much as I should have. I apologize for this. I also apologize for not taking into consideration the personal lives of the moderators. It is a common practice for players to forget that the mods are only human, and that we have to have respect for their time just as we would want respect for our time.

    However, I can't say I completely agree with the spontaneous events.
    It is because of the time zones that these spontaneous events can become a problem.

    Let's say, for the sake of the point being made, that one moderator tends to hold way more spontaneous events than the other moderators.
    However, that moderator is bound to a certain time zone.
    This means that the players who cannot come online during that particular time zone will not be able to participate in nearly as many events as someone who is online during that time zone. I don't believe that is really fair.
    Of course, I am not talking about myself. I am not concerned about whether or not I can participate in enough events, because my time zone happens to have a moderator who does like to host events. However...

    Quote Originally Posted by ReistSoul View Post
    Thou it just a suggestion but about the GM would it bad to have at least 1 or 2 that have same time as Asia or other time to match up. Because mostly i saw the mini event that GM made mostly around PM on server time while at Asia its already night or some of it midnight. Wont it make like less fun for Asia side because their only get few bits of the fun and have to stay up late night just to wait the mini event that been made. But this is just a suggestion.

    others i like the new player. Mostly their really kind and gentle afterall we just need to properly guide them thats all
    We can't say the same for everyone.
    Of course, no one can expect enough GMs to be hired for every time zone to be covered. That's not what I'm saying here.
    My point is that spontaneous events can only appeal to a set amount of players who happen to be online when they're announced. It's not very fair to the people who just happened to be offline during those times.
    Having random events is fun and exciting, but I think the degree of how random they are should be changed. By no means to I want to reduce the amount of events being held, as many players, including myself, love seeing the mods and the community being active and having fun together. I do believe that spontaneous events should be advertised at least a day in advance, though. The degree of how spontaneous is the only thing I would change. I do not want to suggest that they be removed, just that they become more balanced so that they are 1) appealing to the player and 2) available to the largest amount of people possible. Players will be more likely to come on if they know an event is happening at a certain time, since it is otherwise all based on luck.

    Thank you for your time.


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